Desire Avenue

Incidentally,I would have done a similar chart position post for Stina's albums ............................ but

sound world wrote: Like I said,mid life crisis,in spades

It's really beginning to look that way. So strange because she's got it all - she's clever, good-looking, hugely gifted, has made a great life for herself with her own talent. From the perspective of this 40 year old woman, who doesn't have any of that, it's baffling that she could get so lost.

sound world wrote:No,RobB,it's going to be massive with the kids!

I'll be very interested to see how it goes down with the target market. I'd imagine there will be a few girls who will be drawn in by the artwork and maybe by the 'message', but I really can't see many teenagers being at all interested in the music if what we've heard so far is representative. I don't think T has a clue what kids are listening to nowadays.

I'm so torn by all this - I have so much respect for her because of the music she's made in the past, that still means so much to me, and I kind of dread seeing her fall flat on her face and looking ridiculous. I'm so worried what the mainstream music press might do to her this time. On the other hand, the bit of me that's frustrated with her increasing egotism and superficiality thinks that it might be the best thing for her, in the long run - to get a critical and commercial kicking that will bring her to her senses. Which is so mean and horrible of me. But it's only because I know how great she used to be and I want her to be that again.

blue wrote:From the perspective of this 40 year old woman

Hang on,you've still got four days to go,haven't you??
Everything will suddenly become clear then.

RobB wrote:For all Tori fans here are some UK album chart stats for releases up until the end of 2003.

The first figure is its highest position and the second figure is weeks on chart.

'Little Earthquakes' (1992) 14 = 23

'Under The Pink' (1994) 1 = 13

'Boys For Pele' (1996) 2 = 6

'From The Choirgirl Hotel' (1998) 6 = 5

'To Venus And Back' (1999) 22 = 2

'Strange Little Girls' (2001) 16 = 2

'Scarlets Walk' (2002) 26 = 1

'Tales Of A Librarian' (2003) 74 = 1

Now, it's SO OBVIOUS from looking at that - Tori was most commercially successful in the period from 'Little Earthquakes' to 'From The Choirgirl Hotel', ie when she was making music that wasn't exactly what the mainstream would regard as 'commercial'. This is the period that a lot of fans consider to be her best work, the 'real' Tori. Her efforts to make more obviously commercial music have actually achieved the exact opposite of what she intended. Her profile has waned, her chart positions have become embarrassing. The question is, if it's so obvious to us looking at those stats, why on earth can't Tori and her team see it too?

She sells best when she's being her own odd, indefinable, 'difficult' self. Trying to make herself fit into a mainstream box doesn't work.

So frustrating.

blue wrote:But it's only because I know how great she used to be and I want her to be that again.

Sure.
I'm just wondering if I can think of ANY artist(s) who has tried to reinvent him/herself/themselves to get it on with the kids when they're the same age or older than their parents,and succeeded.
There are probably some,but since I'm over 40,I've,er,forgotten.

sound world wrote:

blue wrote:From the perspective of this 40 year old woman

Hang on,you've still got four days to go,haven't you??

Oh god, don't remind me. I'm dreading the day. I always thought I'd do something really special for my 40th - go on a fabulous holiday or something. At least go out and do something special. The way it's worked out, nothing will be happening. It'll be just another day.

Now THAT'S something to feel insecure about, Ms.-Fabulously-Talented-Gorgeous-Wealthy-Amos. [b)]

blue wrote:Tori was most commercially successful in the period from 'Little Earthquakes' to 'From The Choirgirl Hotel', ie when she was making music that wasn't exactly what the mainstream would regard as 'commercial'. This is the period that a lot of fans consider to be her best work, the 'real' Tori.

Don't forget Venus though! Definitely her most underrated album, it's still my favorite. I curse the Still Orbiting disc because it makes it seem like the actual album couldn't stand on it's own, and i didn't even KNOW it was an actual album until a long time after i became a fan because i always shrugged it off as a live album.

just got the full version of Big Wheel high quality mp3, scared to listen to it

aermancer wrote:
Don't forget Venus though! Definitely her most underrated album, it's still my favorite.

I love TVAB, but looking back that was the point where a lot of people felt that she was beginning to deliberately aim for the mainstream pop thing. I remember a lot of comments about it sounding like Madonna, which indeed I think it does at times, although you'd never find anything as good as 'Suede' or 'Datura' or 'Riot Poof' on a Madge album.

Sound-wise there is definitely a conscious pop vibe on that record, although the songwriting is still quite Tori-ish, so she gets away with it. Then came Strange Little Girls which in no way could be described as aimed at the mainstream, it's a very stark record production-wise and quite dark in content. But then it was an admitted contract filler. She wanted away from Atlantic.

Scarlet is of course where the sound went mellow, but it's a very sophisticated kind of mellow and the songwriting is brilliant. It's a great, great album. She was clearly aiming for the mainstream but she hadn't lost her integrity.

The Beekeeper was all dumbed-down fluff, apart from the title track and Garlands. You really couldn't single it out as 'Tori Amos' apart from those two tracks, it could have been made by anyone. Which is where, to me, she's begun to get desperate for mainstream approval/sales. When you are prepared to eradicate your individuality so that people will like you better, there's something wrong.

ADP is looking like a continuation of that trend. Part of me is almost hoping now that it IS a huge hit, just so she can get that need for approval out of her system. Maybe that's what it will take to allow her to focus again on being herself.

I'm happy to see I'm not the only one disliking the new sound - or what we've heard so far.


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And Björk's Volta should leak soon - it's set for a early May release

Martin C Strong's 'The Essential Rock Discography' rates Tori's albums:

Little Earthquakes [9]
Under The Pink [7]
Boys From Pele [7]
From The Choirgirl Hotel [7]
To Venus And Back [5]
Strange Little Girls [4]
Scarlet's Walk [6]
Tales Of A Librarian [8]
The Beekeeper [6]

Maybe I would have given 'Venus' [7] but overall I think the ratings are pretty fair.

Tales is the second highest rating album?! That's by far the worst thing she's ever released.

meh, for me it's

LE - 6.5
UTP - 7.5
BFP - 9.5
FTCH - 9
TVAB - 10
SLG - ? (never heard it)
SW - 7
TOAL - 0
TBK - 2

Casual Tori fans or people who are coming to her for the first time seem to really love 'Tales of a Librarian', for some reason. I guess if you've never heard the originals of 'Spark', 'Bliss', 'Playboy Mommy' etc it's probably a more cohesive listen than it is to us who know the originals well.

Pele and Scarlet would have got the highest rankings from me, followed by Choirgirl and Pink.

Ok for me....

LE - 9
UP - 7
BFP - 9
FCH - 9
V - 6
SLG - 6
SW - 9
TL - 5
BK - 3