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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:48 pm
by blue
Bearing in mind people have only had the album for a few days, but the initial impression is that this album is winning back disillusioned fans in droves. The overall response on the boards has been extremely positive, which is quite a feat considering how much disappointment there's been the past couple of years, and how ready people were to put the boot into this record. There seems to be a feeling that she's back to some kind of form - not 90s form, I think people have accepted that's not coming back any time soon, but it's an obvious step up from where she's been lately. I don't think this is just a 'honeymoon' and people are going to decide the album is actually rubbish, the way they did with TBK - there's a genuinely positive feeling this time, people are really pleased with it.

I've had it on repeat for the past couple of days, because I'm actually enjoying most of it. I'm so surprised at how much I like a lot of these tracks, because from the clips I was expecting it to be dreadful. And it isn't - sure, it's not Pele or even Scarlet, but there's a lot of good stuff here and some tracks I can't stop playing. 'Beauty of Speed' and 'Dragon' are up there with her best work IMHO, and certain tracks are just growing and growing the more I play them, which is a classic characteristic of Tori's work - 'Girl Disappearing', 'Smokey Joe', 'Dark Side of the Sun', 'Almost Rosey', 'Roosterspur Bridge' and 'Father's Son' are fast becoming favourites. 'Teenage Hustling' and 'Body and Soul' are huge fun, 'Mr. Bad Man' is like something off a Jon Brion soundtrack, 'Programmable Soda' is old-style quirky Tori .... there's a lot here I really like. I can honestly say that out of 23 tracks, there are four I dislike/think are a waste of space - 'Fat Slut', 'Velvet Revolution', 'You Can Bring Your Dog' and 'Posse Bonus'. Of those, two are minute-long interludes, and one is a short improv to separate the main body of the album from the two 'bonus tracks'. Not bad going. :wink:

I had one big criticism of this record on first impression, which is how musically derivative it is. Almost every track is reminiscent of something else - there's Beatles, Led Zep, Bowie, Queen, The Doors .... I was shocked at first how obvious the connections are. However, even that criticism is tempered since it began to dawn on me that the influences are way TOO obvious to be anything other than deliberate. This was confirmed by Tori herself in an interview that appeared yesterday on the 'net, where she states that she has consciously referenced a lot of 60s/70s male guitar rock on this project. No doubt she'll spout some conceptual bullshit about 'why', that's what she does nowadays to deflect attention away from the personal element, but personally I think this record is a huge thank you to her older brother Michael. He died two years ago, just as The Beekeeper was about to be released. This is the first work Tori has done since. She's spoken often about how much of an influence Michael was when she was little - he was a teenager during the late 60s/early 70s and it was he who introduced Tori to all those male rock icons she's referencing on this record. Michael was a guitar player, and he loved all those guitar bands. He was the one sneaking The Doors and Led Zeppelin into the house when their father was busy at church. I really think that's what's behind this record - it's her 'thank you and goodbye' to Michael. She's trying to disguise it with all this 'five characters' concept and she's added a few tracks in there to reflect that bullshit, but she's not as good at hiding as she thinks. :wink:

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:55 am
by aermancer
after listening to ADP more, i still only like those 4 or 5 songs.

It's just really uninteresting to me. not only are they unremarkable songs, but this is coming from the same person who wrote Marianne and Professional Widow?

i don't have much else to say about it i guess..

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:13 am
by blue
I'm really enjoying it, in my own edited version. I've ditched the following:

Yo George
Digital Ghost
You Can Bring Your Dog
Fat Slut
Secret Spell
Devils and Gods
Velvet Revolution
Posse Bonus

So, three full tracks and four interludes, all of which are decidedly subpar/pointless, to me. That leaves me with a playlist as follows:


Big Wheel
Bouncing Off Clouds
Teenage Hustling
Mr. Bad Man
Girl Disappearing
Body and Soul
Father's Son
Programmable Soda
Code Red
Roosterspur Bridge
Beauty of Speed
Almost Rosey
Dark Side of the Sun
Smokey Joe
Dragon

All of which I'm playing constantly, some I'm positively loving (BoS, Dragon, Smokey Joe, Girl Disappearing).

I've stopped expecting a Marianne or a ProWidow, which I think helps me to just enjoy much of this album. The 90s are gone and they ain't coming back. But there's some good stuff on this record, and judging by some of the lyrics, it might be the last one. 'Code Red' is particularly interesting in this respect. :wink:

In one of her latest interviews T mentions that she's been working with a theatre director recently, with a view to writing something for the stage. I just have a feeling she's decided to move on from the rock world, once this album is out and toured - I suspect that is in fact what her 'jumping ship' comment some months ago referred to. We all assumed she was talking about the new album, but I think her mind was already leaping ahead. It'll be interesting to see where she goes after this tour.

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:40 am
by blue
Well, well .... this is really surprising, a very positive review on the Ch4 teletext music service (surprising because they've been quite scathing about T in recent years):

'Blimey. After a couple of mediocre misfires, the idea of an Amos double album was worrying.

Fear not, it's as lively as anything in her past. The cynic keeps waiting for filler to appear and, 23 songs later, it hasnt. It races past, Amos an excited vamp pirouetting out of the speakers with a teasing lust for life.
It's shocking how spirited and eccentric these rock & roll piano romps are.
Cracking stuff. 8/10'


ADP has also received a very positive review from the UK Music Week, so it's nice to see her getting a bit of praise in this country for a change. I'm sure the Kate-worshipping Q will do it's ritual yawn of a paragraph and NME will rubbish it on principle of course, but I'll be interested to see what Uncut makes of it. They actually gave TBK a four star review, which nearly made me fall off my chair at the time. :D

I'm actually looking forward to getting the CD proper on Monday, and I won't be selling it on as I initially thought I would when I heard the clips. I'm so pleased at how this album has surprised me.

I can't wait for 'Body and Soul' live. :D

American Doll Posse

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:06 am
by d.a.walker
Well I have heard it 3 full times now.....and.....

1. Yo George - 7/10

I like the intro, it is quite restrained and to the point, though I don't like the title, The Madness Of King George would have been better and more subtle.

2. Big Wheel - 8/10

It's grown on me big time and it sounds better on the actual album itself.

03. Bouncing Off Clouds - 9/10

I love this, now I have got past the annoying way she pronounces clouds in it hehe.

04. Teenage Hustling - 10/10

This is f**king great, what a riot.

05. Digital Ghost - 8/10

Really love this track as well.

06. You Can Bring Your Dog - 6/10

Really great intro but then really wanders off into boring land

07. Mr. Bad Man - 9/10

Really like this track the more and more I hear it.

08. Fat Slut - 3/10

No, no, NO. Go away you crappy little crap.

09. Girl Disappearing - 10/10

Oh wow! This is why I love Tori, this is old school Tori and damn good for it too.

10. Secret Spell - 6/10

Hmm, it's not hideous and is very pretty, but it's just a bit naffily airyfairy.

11. Devils And Gods - 8/10

Oh how I wish this was a proper song, it is just beautiful. It's going to be a new Hello Mr Zebra I reckon for me...

12. Body And Soul - 10/10

Yeah sleazy sleazy sleazy :twisted:

13. Father's Son - 9/10

Beautiful, really like this track a lot.

14. Programmable Soda - 4/10

No, go away.

15. Code Red - 5/10

It just goes on and on forever.

16. Roosterspur Bridge - 4/10

And this can sod off as well.

17. Beauty Of Speed - 7/10

All I can say is that I thought little of it when I first heard it, now on the 3rd listen it is worming it's way into me.

18. Almost Rosey - 10/10

After Girl Disappearing this is my second favourite track. I love this song so so much.

19. Velvet Revolution - 8/10

Makes me want to drink vodka and roll around in snow. I like this a lot, wish it was an idea she explored more....

20. Dark Side Of The Sun - 8/10

Again on first listen didn't think much of it at all, but now really like it.

21. Posse Bonus - 7/10

7/10 for the rhythm alone, great beat to this track should be longer.

22. Smokey Joe - 6/10

It's got mood and the vocals are great, but it still feels like it's meandering around looking for it's clothes....

23. Dragon - 7/10

All I can say is again it's growing on me and revealing a little bit more on each play. Likely to go up to an 8/10 by Saturday... :)


It's not a hideous mess at all and as a whole piece it's very very well done. The only problem for me is that I think that if she whittled it down to say 12/13 tracks, here there is a Tori masterpiece, but clothed with so much it loses that effect.

My cut would be:

01. Bouncing Off Clouds
02. Teenage Hustling
03. Father's Son
04. Almost Rosey
05. Mr Bad Man
06. Body And Soul
07. Devils And Gods
08. Digital Ghost
09. Big Wheel
10. Girl Disappearing
11. Dragon
12. Velvet Revolution
13. Dark Side Of The Sun

The album is a marked improvement on The Beekeeper though, and I do like it a lot. :D

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:16 pm
by kuhn
Fat Slut = horrible. It just doesn't fit in, sorry about the pun.

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:37 pm
by blue
kuhn wrote:Fat Slut = horrible. It just doesn't fit in, sorry about the pun.
It's pretty pointless, and sounds very forced too, which is my main complaint about it. But then again, it's a minute on an 80 minute record, so I'm not too traumatised. :D

I'm actually quite intrigued by what sparked it - she sounds *so* angry and disgusted, she's positively spitting contempt at someone in this little interlude. It feels personal, not conceptual. Put that together with the alarming amount of weight she's lost recently (almost 2st, according to herself, and she wasn't exactly plump to begin with :shock: ), and I'm seriously wondering if the two are connected. :?:

Re: American Doll Posse

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:00 pm
by blue
d.a.walker wrote:Well I have heard it 3 full times now.....and.....


The album is a marked improvement on The Beekeeper though, and I do like it a lot. :D
I'm really glad you're enjoying it Daniel, I was worried there for a bit that we'd lost you forever. :D

I agree with a lot of your assessements of the individual tracks, but I reckon that by the time you've played it a few more times, 'Smokey Joe', 'Dragon' and 'Code Red' will have moved higher up your list. Also maybe 'Programmable Soda' - I didn't think I'd like this one much at first, but it's really grown.

I think the order you listen to these tracks makes a real difference, incidentally. Listening to the whole album straight through in T's order doesn't do it any justice, and some of the transitions just don't work. I found my own order that really works for me, and I'm sticking with that. :wink:


The album is continuing to garner good reviews across the board, despite the doll concept and the running time - I feared that those elements in themselves would scupper any hopes of a positive reaction to this record, but I think the music is so enjoyable and so diverse that reviewers are simply focusing on that, and not letting the concept/length bother them too much. What's noticeable and very interesting is that many of the critics are seeing this album as a return to form after The Beekeeper, which of course is largely how the fanbase has reacted too. Nice to see a convergence there, it hasn't often been the case with Tori's work.

Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 7:13 am
by d.a.walker
Ok You Can Bring Your Dog has just hit a 9/10 now, I f**ken love it!!!!!

I've been shrieking it all morning, "oooh ooh oooh eohow oh who hee who he whoo yeeeaah" :lol:

I want to direct the music video for it, which will have Hyacinth Bucket miming to Tori's voice backed by a Led Zeppelin-esque band performing in an aged care home :twisted: Tori can be dressed up as a pensioner with a zimmer frame throwing her underwear at the stage.... :shock:

Too much coffee, waaaaaay toooo much coffeeeee.... :lol:

Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 8:10 am
by blue
:D :D :D

It's not one of my favourites on the album, but the bit at the end where she starts getting all hot 'n heavy and sings 'you can bring your dog ... you can bring them all .... you can bring your mom' cracks me up. :D

I can't stop playing 'Mr. Bad Man' at the moment, those 'doo de doo de doo de doos' in the chorus are addictive. :lol:

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 11:52 am
by blue
Guys, I don't know if any of you have been following the youtube postings of a music teacher in New York called Gregg - he's been teaching his kids choir Tori songs for some time now, being a huge fan of her music, and posting videos of their performances on youtube. The number of times I've watched them with tears rolling down my face, and now I don't have to feel silly about it anymore, coz look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS9f_XQqVi0&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob9cAWly0gI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEtOLuGYF2w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czaNzwazAj4


This happened yesterday - fantastic day for Gregg and the kids, and what a reward for their hard work! I'm so delighted for them and I just had to post it here for any of you who haven't seen it, hope you enjoy it. :wink:



Some of their previous postings:


bouncing off clouds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zztWSa8j ... ed&search=


twinkle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zztWSa8j ... ed&search=


dragon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zztWSa8jMZM


winter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en0VgM_C ... ed&search=


not the red baron:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flxUor7r ... ed&search=



I love what this guy is doing - I remember being in choir as a child and how much I loved it, I think that's why it affects me so much watching these videos. The looks on their faces just say it all.

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 3:09 pm
by RobB
ADP has entered the UK album charts at #50.

If Tori was aiming for a more 'commercial' approach to gain popularity I don't think its quite come off.

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 7:30 pm
by blue
It's really disappointing given that this is a much better album than The Beekeeper, but not surprising - I think the last album really killed off any remaining vestige of interest in Tori's music in the UK outside her small fanbase here and some sections of the music media. TBK actually sold quite well here, but if most of the people who bought it were disappointed, they're not going to buy the next one. Just how it goes.

Final count isn't in for the US chart yet, but it's looking as if ADP has not done as well as expected there, either. Projected first week sales are actually about 30K down on TBK. This I suspect will be of more significance to Tori and Epic than her UK results. It'll be interesting to see what happens now. :wink:

On one hand I'm quite sad for her, because she deserves better - this is a good solid pop/rock album, there's much to enjoy despite the obvious flaws (overlong, very derivative musically), it's a pity her gambit has failed. On the other hand, it's rather a vindication for those of us in her fanbase who have been seriously questioning her motives and tactics lately. It's been clear to a lot of us that she has become overly concerned with her place in the rock music pantheon, and has majorly compromised her artistic integrity in the pursuit of it. The terrible irony being of course that the more she waters down her work to try to gain mass approval, the further away she gets from any lasting reputation in rock music. It's very sad and hugely frustrating - if it's so obvious to us, why on earth can't she see it? Why does she not understand what it is that makes her special, and would have guaranteed her the respect she craves? This truly baffles me. Of all the tracks on ADP, 'Smokey Joe' and 'Dragon' are the two that are classic, brilliant Tori - and she only tacked them on at the end as bonuses. It's completely puzzling. :?

Anyway. I'm just glad to be enjoying the majority of this album far more than I expected to - I'm playing my edited down version every day at the moment, and loving it despite it's not being what I hoped for. She can write a damn good pop song when she wants, and there are more than a few on this album.

Curious to know what you think Rob, if you've heard it yet?

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:56 pm
by sound world
Is no.50 in the album charts so terrible? Maybe it's not the same as when she first appeared,but I think the vast majority of musicians wouldn't mind getting the royalties from that sort of sale.
Charts are so odious and ridiculous.All they tell anyone is how much something is selling by comparison to other things,absolutely no indicator of quality,or much else for that matter.It's bizarre how they have caught on in the world of music.I mean,why don't we have weekly radio bulletins devoted to 'the best-selling make of baked beans in the UK today!' or whatever.See how stupid it is,from that example?

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:04 am
by blue
Odious as they are, chart placings = sales and they can be a horribly decisive factor in an artist's relationship with the record companies they depend on to finance their work. They are highly relevant from that perspective. If Tori wants to continue making records for a major label, she needs to sell respectably so that it will keep her on its books.

Personally I couldn't give a flying f*ck where she lands up in the charts, because as you say, it's no indication of quality. I'd rather she ditched the majors, forgot about trying to be a mainstream rock artist and just did what makes her happy musically, because that's what is likely to produce the kind of work we know she's capable of, the kind that makes us love her so much. She has one of the most devoted fanbases of any artist out there, she continues to sell out her tours every time, people love her and love to see her playing. She could set up her own little label to sell her work, finance her records through touring and merchandise and the income from her amazing studio .... she'd have the freedom to do what she liked musically, and that could be really exciting. But she wouldn't earn enough to maintain the lifestyle she's become accustomed to. I think the time is rapidly approaching when she is going to have to look very hard at what's more important to her - writing and performing music as she wants, or being (relatively) rich and famous.