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Re: The Tori Thread

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:06 pm
by blue
RobB wrote: Its true that Kate has been inspired lyrically by other works,but the melodies are her own,even when covering trad songs like My Lagan Love & The Handsome Cabin Boy.
Rob, the melodies she uses in those two songs ARE the traditional tunes. :D
RobB wrote:When she does use another composers melody then its credited as such.
Ahhaha. Really? Like the two examples you mentioned above, which despite being traditional folk tunes were released with the credit (Bush) as songwriter? She got caught out both times though, and had to issue a statement saying that the credit on the labels of both singles was wrong. Just like she got caught out when she used a Greek folk tune a fan had sent her a recording of for the 'Irish' bit in The Sensual World, without any acknowledgement that it wasn't her own invention. I believe on that occasion her brother 'clarified' the matter in one of the KBC magazines, when the fan who sent her the original tape made a public stink about it. Oh and there's the Greek tune she used for 'Jig of Life', of course, still no official credit anywhere for that, or for the Bulgarian tune she used in 'Rocket's Tail', or any of the English and Irish tunes that 'inform' her first two albums.

Seriously. The woman has barely had an original idea of her own in her entire creative life, but somehow has the world thinking she's an innovative pioneer. Genius indeed. :D

Re: The Tori Thread

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:38 pm
by RobB
blue wrote:
RobB wrote: Its true that Kate has been inspired lyrically by other works,but the melodies are her own,even when covering trad songs like My Lagan Love & The Handsome Cabin Boy.
Rob, the melodies she uses in those two songs ARE the traditional tunes. :D
Oh well,its the lyrics she wrote then. I knew it was one or the other.
:mrgreen:

Re: The Tori Thread

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:51 pm
by blue
She didn't write the lyrics to those two songs either, Rob. 'The Handsome Cabin Boy' is just a straight rendition of the original folk song, with some verses left out. My Lagan love is the original folk tune, with lyrics written by John Carder Bush.

And don't get me started on what proportion of her 'own' lyrics she actually wrote! There's a reason some of the songwriting credits on her old records said (Kate Bush), and a reason some merely said (Bush). :wink:

And also don't get me started on the possible reasons why, in the wake of Tori's bombshell 'Little Earthquakes' and all the attention and praise it garnered, Kate Bush decided for her next album to abandon her previous 'arty', storytelling ways and go all 'personal' and 'confessional' on us. :D

Re: The Tori Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:57 am
by d.a.walker
Hmm, Welcome To England still shows some water treading from Ms Amos...it's very nice I suppose but also very boring. Nowhere near as exciting as Ms Harvey and Mr Parish's Black Hearted Love, oooh that is realllly something tasty!! :mrgreen:

Re: The Tori Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:31 pm
by blue
I do like 'Welcome To England', I think it'll basically join the poppier tracks from TBK/ADP on the cd I stick on when I'm doing the housework. :D

THIS IS NOT WHAT GOD PUT YOU IN THE WORLD FOR, TORI AMOS. [b)]

Dan, have you heard '500 Miles' yet? Seriously, you must hear it - it's so hilariously bad, I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on it.

Re: The Tori Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:57 am
by d.a.walker
Have you seen the nasty, low budget promo video for Welcome To England? In summary, Ms Amos wanders around London botoxed to oblivion, wearing the most hideous clothes she could find.

It's awful.

And I actually truly despise the song, it's a parody, she's impersonating herself.

Re: The Tori Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:47 pm
by blue
The 'visualette' for WTE was kind of the last straw for me, actually. Well, along with the interviews she's done recently. She talks about how she's 'giving people treasures' and how so much of what's out there is disposable rubbish, compared to the significant and meaningful work she's putting out. Ugh. The sheer arrogance and egotism, the unbelievable lack of self-awareness, is nauseating. She actually likened the video clips for this record to the work of Mike Leigh.

Seeing the clip itself was the final nail in the coffin for my interest in this artist, now. It has *nothing* to do with the song, and everything to do with her personal cosmetic vanity - it's literally just shots of her walking around London wearing the fabulously expensive haute couture she seems obsessed with the past few years. There is absolutely no artistic content in it at all, it's just her being photographed as if she were a catwalk model. There's a shot that starts at her ankles and slowly moves up her body to show the clothes, all the way up to her vapid, dead-eyed face. :(

Add in the artwork photos that have been released so far and ... oh good grief. It's not just the surgery and botox, on top of that she's also airbrushed and photoshopped to hell, standing around like a blank-faced living-doll Fembot. She said in her most recent interview that she sees these images as 'empowered and sexy'. :shock: :shock:

I guess I've been getting more and more disillusioned by the path she's taken in the last five years, but all this has brought it home to me very clearly that the Tori I adored is long, long gone. I just can't make excuses for it anymore. The other day I went on a little youtube expedition, digging up interviews and live performances from the 90s - the contrast between her then and her now was shocking, almost heartbreaking. I never would have dreamed THAT Tori could turn into this one we're seeing now. I mean, just, WOW. :?

My interest has just gone. I could deal with the poor-quality music she's releasing if there was some semblance of self-awareness or humbleness there, but this hideous vanity and egotism I just can't get on board with. She's become a very unpleasant, shallow human being somewhere along the line.

R.I.P Tori Amos (1992 - 2003)

Re: The Tori Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:29 am
by d.a.walker
You know I said literally the exact same thing to my partner the other day regarding Tori. She's just not the singer I held in such high regard for so many years. For an even more shocking contrast, watch the WTE video and then watch the video for PJ and John Parish's Black Hearted Love. I swear PJ Harvey gets it so right and does so few interviews it keeps her as fresh and exciting as she's ever been. Tori talks too much about crap for my liking. An ego in ironed skin who writes songs so vapid and meaningless now I can't even enjoy the prettiness of it all.

It's all very angry, frustrating and terribly sad.

:(

Re: The Tori Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:21 pm
by blue
d.a.walker wrote: I swear PJ Harvey gets it so right and does so few interviews it keeps her as fresh and exciting as she's ever been.
Yep. I don't always like what Polly does, but I have such huge respect for her as an artist who's managed to have a long career, and still keep her integrity and a sense of honouring her gift. By that I mean, pushing her creativity, exploring, putting out work that's worthy of her talent. She has never been distracted by the peripheral bullshit of the music business. She's done a truly admirable job of handling the whole 'woman in rock' thing, consistently playing with her image in an inventive and fascinating way, neatly side-stepping the negative aspect of being a woman in that business by taking control of the visual side of her work and challenging the stereotypes.

Contrast that with Tori, who even now talks continually about Fighting Da Patriarchy!11! and being a ballbuster and challenging male authority etc etc, but has gone the lengths of surgery and injecting poison into her face to make herself look 25 at 45, and who presents imagery in her artwork now that makes her look increasingly like an unreal plastic doll, a perfect male-fantasy Fembot, not a real woman. And she's doing this while saying that she's deliberately targeting young girls, to give them a feminist wake-up call! [censor]

Personally, if I was a teenage girl right now who was looking for an interesting, out-of-the-ordinary role model, I think Polly Harvey would be the one catching my attention. Her confidence in herself as an artist and a woman is hugely appealing. She is exactly the kind of role model this generation of young women needs - creative, highly intelligent, thoughtful, unquestioningly assuming her right to be an artist and to be taken seriously. She walks the walk in her quiet way, while Tori spouts increasingly ludicrous, egotistical and deluded nonsense that nobody believes when they see her Stepford Wife imagery and hear the insipid, shallow music she's putting out.

Someone on @ put forward an interesting theory, recently. Namely that Tori is trying to re-create the kind of success she feels she should have had with her very first album, Y Kant Tori Read. The fact that it's not really Tori Amos anymore, but 'the Tori Amos Band' - the bog standard rawk designed to appeal to the mainstream - the shallow, vapid imagery that's all about personal vanity. I actually think there could be something to it. It makes sense of her 'I want to get away from the girl-and-a-piano' thing. Maybe this is what she wanted all along, and the earlier piano-based music we all adore so much was simply a means to an end, for her? It's a shocking thought, but it might just be true. Maybe what she wanted all along was to be the rawk star lead singer of a mainstream rawk band.

I mean, take the fact that now she's gone independent, in her terms managed to get free of the 'controlling' record companies that she's always implied were putting pressure on her to make a certain kind of music - well, the new album is a continuation of what she's been doing for the last five years, so is it possible it was the record companies who were blocking that in the early years, and trying to get her to do what she does best? Remember that Atlantic rejected several versions of Little Earthquakes, kept telling her to go back and rework it. It was *their* decision to put it out in the brilliant form we know it, not Tori's. The mind boggles at the thought, but is that pressure from Atlantic the reason we got the Earthquakes/Pink/Pele version of Tori that we fell in love with? Is that maybe the real reason the problems started during the Choirgirl period - her first 'band' record?

What an astonishing thought. For so long we've believed Tori's version of the relationship with Atlantic. But it might just be because of their pressure that we got the early albums the way they were.

Re: The Tori Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:26 pm
by kuhn
Beth and Daniel - you all present my feelings about the new Tori perfectly.

I couldn't believe it when I saw the cover shot for the new single:

Image

So does the framed image to the right represent Tori`s present self image? That could explain the plastic doll look. :shock:

The photoshop work is so poor, that her left arm looks half the size of the other - also notice the strange claw/hand.

:?

Re: The Tori Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:24 pm
by blue
That's exactly what I'm talking about, Kuhn - she simply does not look like a real woman anymore in her artwork, it's frighteningly Stepford Wife/Fembot. Plastic, perfect, porcelain, no flaws or imperfections allowed. And does that look like a 46 year old woman, to you? Yeah, no.

What depresses me more than anything in these pics, though (and in the WTE video) is that blank, dead-eyed stare. There is *no* expression whatsoever, no indication that this perfect pretty creature has anything going on in her head. I just can't believe this is what she feels is a positive image to send out to young women, or to anyone, for that matter. I cannot understand how the Tori I loved, who was so vibrant and quirky and full of expression, can think these images are in any way 'empowered'.

It's so hard not to feel angry with her when she's simultaneously talking all this crap about her feminist credentials in interviews, and acting as if she's going to single-handedly save a generation of young women from the evils of patriarchy. Her propaganda is saying one thing, but her images and the surgery/botox are saying 'I'm desperately insecure about getting older. Please love me and find me sexy. Look at my perfect wrinkle-free skin! No ageing for this girl.'

I want to feel sorry for her - I did, until recently. But it's become ever clearer that her personal vanity and ego has overtaken just about every other aspect of her character. It's tragic because she is, or used to be, such a fascinating person and artist.

I seriously, seriously would love to know what happened to this woman between Scarlet's Walk and The Beekeeper to bring all this into being.

Re: The Tori Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:40 pm
by blue
Some of my favourite Tori pics from the Scarlet's Walk era:

Image

Image

Image

Image


She was just coming up to 40, in these pics. What a beautiful woman she was, lines and all. So much expression in her eyes.

Compare and contrast with everything after this era - Tales of a Librarian, The Beekeeper, ADP and now AATS. It's shocking.

Re: The Tori Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:52 pm
by blue
A non-studio pic from The Beekeeper era:

Image

This isn't even with airbrushing/photoshopping, it's a live on stage picture. This is how she looked during the Original Sinsuality tour. You know, looking at this, I'm starting to wonder if she actually had a facelift, not just the browlift/eye surgery.

ADP era: ToriFembot

Image

Re: The Tori Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:03 am
by sound world
She looks gorgeous in those 'favourite' photos.
(My first two girlfriends were longhaired redheads.*swoons*. :mrgreen: )
But alas the beauty is hiding something,since she's clearly not content with the way she looked then. Those plastic dolly pics are pretty sad-actually she looks uncannily like a sexdoll on the album cover.Kinda...Dead. :?
Has she got a partner? I thought she was married? What does he think?
I haven't heard any of her recent music,and I'm not in a rush to if it resembles her attitude to her exterior. [b)]

Re: The Tori Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:48 pm
by d.a.walker
Ah Welcome To England is now starting to be dubbed 'Vagisil Girl'!

She definitely appears to be singing vagisil girl in this song....hehe...reminds me of Concertina and the easily misheard line 'you're the faeces' :lol:

It's very sad seeing those pictures. She's turning into a red headed Cher.

And that single cover, my god, that is very very funny, she looks like a mannequin. Do you think she has the same plastic surgeon as Joan Rivers?

Give me PJ any day! Actually I've been sinking myself into my other favourite female singers, Kristin Hersh, Scout Niblett and Lisa Germano. Thank god they'll never consider tucks, snips, raises, botox, cologen...amputation.... :lol: