Desire Avenue

I have come to the conclusion that I hate the states. I hate being Americanized and i've desired to live elsewhere my whole life, there's nothing i want here. So I'm gonna do it. I'm leaving. Not within the next month, but as soon as I can, like in a couple years. I have a few places I've wanted to move, but can't decide which to go to. I've picked my top favorite choices. I just need help to make up my mind so i can work toward it.
So, which one would you suggest? (and why if you will)

Sounds interesting!

We need some more info.

For example:

Do you feel like learning a new language?

What kind of climate do you prefer?


...

I voted Sweden... just because I think it would be a great experience for you... The UK is a bit too well-known and Iceland might be too hardcore.

If you're serious you really have to work for it though. Sweden is VERY restrictive with "visitors"... even if you're from the US. You'd have to get work or study here...

Oh and no need to worry about the language. Most people here know enough English for you to get by...

Have you considered beautiful Norway? It's a country i'm considering moving to; Kuhn will probably tell otherwise, but i think it's one of the best countries to live in. It should also be easier to move there instead of the EU. the EU has about the same rules as for us to move to the US; you have to prove why YOU are the only suitable person when taking a job and why there's no EU citizen that couldn't do it...
I think Norway has easier access to Americans and Europeans and they welcome new people, especially to the countryside, to make up for norwegian youth moving to the city. Being from the country myself I never found Norway deserted or far from civilization anywhere in the south, so i wouldn't mind driving 20 miles to the nearest shopping center (could be different in winter time though )
I think people in the northern countries do speak english quite well (younger people at least), but they accept you easier when you at least try to learn their language. I've been following dutch immigrants on a website called norsk.nl for some time and i've learned that you should at least learn some basic language and have a working experience to get a job.

I won't write too much yet (tell something more what you're looking for) but i wouldn't recommend the Netherlands, cause this country stinks [:xx]
The people are inhospitable, rude as in NY, politics sucks, it's too crowded here, everything's too expensive, and people are only nice when they get better from it theirselves.
There's many more reasons and probably also things you'll enjoy here, but it sounds like the main reasons for leaving NY are the same for me here.. but i'll be happy to hear more about them!

Oh boy, yes, you like expensive countries don't you? I'm going to have to offer another "write-in" vote. I think you should go to China! I didn't get on sooo well when I was there, but if you look at how much baijiu your drivers are drinking you should get on okay. I certainly want to get back there as soon as I can.

Obviously, the best ticket's to get a job teaching English. I don't know your background ... it's easy to get a job if you have a degree .... if you don't, I expect you can still work something out. Once you're there, the school helps you out, so the language isn't really a problem. You don't get paid much, but the living expenses really are low, so it's easy to save up. I still took money out after paying a chunk of my medical bills.

Cycling's easy, taxis are cheap, restaurants are cheap and the food really is good. If you don't know the names of what you want to eat, they'll just take you out back and you can point to something that seems to be swimming happily. Lots of people want to learn English, so it's easy to make superficial friends. They don't like Americans, but if you just tell people you're Australian they'll never find you out.

I don't mean to put down any other countries you didn't mention. One of our esteemed colleages went to Russia, of course, which was what put these ideas in my head in the first place.


Anyway, if all that's not your glass of tea, there, Britain's fine. I don't have any big arguments with Britain.

Now I'll have a lie down after that excitement

daniel wrote:Oh and no need to worry about the language. Most people here know enough English for you to get by...

My problem in Stockholm was to tell eachtime that I can only speak english and not swedish My swedish friend told me I could look like a swedish citizen so maybe people thought so... Funny In fact that was like a game sometime, I said Hej tack and some other basic words and so I guess people never thought I was french. And as the roots of my family are from Spain, it was easy to perform the rolling R [king]

I really advice you to come to Sweden, it's expensive but much less than Iceland and all the people I met there were so nice ! And the social system is one of the best in the world too

Lol, Yes i do like expensive countries, i have a refined taste, what can i say?
I have absolutely no problem learning a new language, i actually welcome the challenge. I'd learn the language of the country no matter what, out of respect for the natives...and common sense. I was actually learning Icelandic for quite a while, just to be prepared, i still plan to at least visit there. There's no one here to practice with (icelanders are quite rare here, or anywhere for that matter). I know american sign language (ASL), which is used many places, even non english speaking ones, so maybe, depending, that'd help. If not, i'm a fast learner (most of the time).
I think in many non english speaking countries love to practice they're english on the english speaking, so if i go to a place where everyone knows english, maybe i'd pretend i wasn't english so i could learn more of there language.
As to getting into the country (Sweden looks more and more appealing) if its really that hard to get into, i'll find a way. I'm not the sort to give up easily if i really want it. I'm not picky about jobs, I'll just have to find out what kind of jobs they have there. There's alot to do.
I'm way too freakin' picky to go somewhere like mexico or china where i can make a living off of a few months work here in the states.

I need:
1. class
2. a challenge
3. to be out of north america etc etc etc...

Anyone know about jobs in Sweden or the netherlands? I'll be researching what i can find on the net tonight, maybe i'll come accross something.
I've decided Iceland is way too expensive and the U.K. too linked with the US of A. ;/

*listening to Pink Floyd.* "hanging on in quiet desparation is the English way.."

I have lived in the UK (3 years), in Sweden (9 years), in Switzerland (2 years) and France (the rest). If asked which I liked the best, I would answer: ?
Sweden was great because of the size of the country vs size of the population, great houses (very affordable in the countryside), but the economy is going downhill, the school system is questionable, the winter in regions without snow is very, very long, and the wind in the South is a killer. Summers, when nice, are heaven. You will need to learn Swedish but it is not very difficult (with a little effort you should get by in 6 months).
UK is where I have met the nicest people, and that is a major plus. The only country I have lived in where you do not need to register yourself anywhere when you move in (if you have a job), you just move in.
Switzerland has the most amazing scenery, hiking is awsome, drivers do respect bicycles, where you will find people from all over the world, but you will need a good salary, rules are rules, meat and fish are way too expensive, as is eating out. You will need to learn French, German, or Italian.

My ex non-girlfriend definitely registered with the police when she was in the UK, as well as all the hassle of getting a visa. It's probably only from within the EU that you don't have to do that???

picsou wrote:the economy is going downhill, the school system is questionable

What, what, what? OK... the Swedish economy is quite stable...and I'm not sure how that relates to Ruth's coming here or not anyway. And what's wrong with the school system!!!? Questionable!!!? I beg your pardon.

Please clarify.

x31eq wrote:My ex non-girlfriend definitely registered with the police when she was in the UK, as well as all the hassle of getting a visa. It's probably only from within the EU that you don't have to do that???

Sure, but registration with the authorities when you move in to Sweden, or Switzerland is mandatory for all EU members. In England, we went to the police when we moved in, they were very surprised to see us.

daniel wrote:

picsou wrote:the economy is going downhill, the school system is questionable

What, what, what? OK... the Swedish economy is quite stable...and I'm not sure how that relates to Ruth's coming here or not anyway. And what's wrong with the school system!!!? Questionable!!!? I beg your pardon.

Please clarify.

Just look at the increase in taxes. Saw recently that the taxeringsv?rde in Sk?ne was being raised another 30-40%. This happened 3-4 years ago once already. Several universities have had to take drastic measures in order to decrease their debts. And fundings for research have also been decreasing, making it very difficult for younger researchers to produce any results, apart from a few selected research centres. The Swedish system is also such that it is very easy to be on sick leave. While we were there we had a fair number of friends who did benefit from this system, although they were not exactly "ill". I have a friend who has been unemployed for quite while now. What does the unemployment agency propose him: spend time in front of a computer learning some stuff he already knows, which has nothing to do with his competences. That is not unusual. He gets paid, but does not like it. Will he get a job after, fat chance.

Schools. Children who have been to school abroad and move to Sweden are very surprised to see Swedish kids' behaviour. They are basically free to move around in the classroom, speak loud,... The number of times that schools are vandalised is just crazy. Here, I have not seen that happened once.

And something I forgot. If you need a hip operation, for ex, be prepared to wait a long time, whereas in Switzerland, or France, you will get it done very switfly. And that is just one example. If you are never ill, you are fine, but if you often need doctors, and hospitals, you'd better have a very good insurance or connections.

Well... you should maybe phrase yourself a bit more carefully. When you start calling MY education "questionable" I'm gonna react.

You see.. Sweden is about giving the same opportunities to everyone disregarding originin or "class" or whatever. So of course those who have some are going to complain about having to share with those that don't have as much. I LOVE paying taxes... I benefit immensely from it and I see that so may others do too. Consider all the things we DON'T pay for here in Sweden. And consider that things like schooling and healthcare are availble in EQUAL quality to everyone. Of course there are going to be difficulties with this... like long queues to healthcare and so on... but I cannot consider the alternative where those who can afford it get it first. So I guess we differ in political opinion... so I'll leave it at that... not wanting a political discussion. The taxes are for allowing this political system and not because the economy is down.

Now, about the schooling. There have been some severe cut-backs on higher education. That's true. But again... consider the alternative. A higher education that only accepts those who can afford it? Sweden has a very large quota of people with higher education because ANYONE that can handle it and study hard is accepted. I pay 0, zip, NOTHING, in fees to my university, the largest university in the country and ranked top 20 among the universities of Europe, AND I get a grant and very favourable loan from the government so that I don't have to work while I study. Of course we cannot compete with the US and the UK wehn it's about funding research and making discoveries but in my world offering higher education to the ENTIRE population is hell of a lot more important. Plus the quality of the education STILL is top-notch in spite fo the cutbacks. And don't forget who gives out the Nobel prize eh. My university has always had some stellar Nobel candidates and I don't doubt there are going to be more to come.

And I guess we disgree on the lower education as well. I feel that your description is a bit unfair. I have NEVER seen a vandalized school. And I guess that the behaviour of Swedish kids can seem appaling to people from the continent... when it isn't realy. I've heard too much bullcrap about Swedish kids being irrespectful and so one... We have IMMENSE amounts of freedom and of course some people are going to take advantage of it... but it's FAR from the majority. We call our teachers by first name. We feel we can speak our opinions freely without reprimand. We are allowed to be CASUAL and we don't live in "fear" of the headmaster or teachers or anything like that. We are understood and helped! Some people may consider this pampering... I say those people are cynical and elitist.

AND the most important part: The doctor's son and the janitor's son both go to the same school and receive the same quality education (HIGH QUALITY EDUCATION) and have the same opportunities of succeeding in life. That is something I wouldn't trade for ANYTHING.

Daniel,

You are right I should probably be more careful when I express myself.
I do not mean that YOUR educaiton is questionable, but the system is. Of course, I do agree that any education system should make it (education) available to all children, whatever their parents' resources. There are big weaknesses in other countries, eg only last year was it possible for children to get their lunch at school here, and still many kids go back home at lunch.
As far as school vandalism, believe me that Lund and its surroundings have really been plagued with it.
As I have written, although maybe not very clearly, Sweden is a very nice country to live in. My comments were not intended to make it sound like Sweden is a mess. If I had to choose between, let's say, France (where I was born), and Sweden, I would not hesitate one second and choose Sweden.

Picsou: I can respect that. I guess I jumped to conclusions about your opinions... it's good not to have to confirm my initial thought. I just thought I'd guard myself <i>just in case</i>.

But yeah, there's room for improvement everywhere and Sweden is certainly no exception.