Desire Avenue

One of my cats, Cinnamon, has gone beserk and I am not quite sure what to do. I woke up to her hissing, growling and snarling at my other cat, Misty, who was very distressed by the whole thing. This has happened before, but not for a few months now.

I'm starting to suspect that there might be something more seriously wrong with her, she has become incredibly overweight despite the fact that she is fed appropriately and is also now very lethargic.

She was de-sexed 2 years ago and has totally changed personality. She gets spooked now for no reason at all, behaves as if you have treated her badly (which is becoming quite distressing for us as she's had the utter most care all her life), won't socialise with us and now won't even go near our other cat.

At the moment I have got her in a dark room in the pet carrier just to keep her calm and in a neutral environment away from the other cat. I don't think this is the best solution at present but I am worried she will hurt herself and/or the other cat. The last episode she had like this lasted over a week and we had to take her to the vet, who was totally unhelpful and suggested we try and get a urine sample to be tested for diabetes. I mean how on earth do you get a urine sample from an unstable (or stable for that matter) cat? The cat litter tray is also shared so it wouldn't be accurate either. Plus it was going to cost me $300 to just get the urine tested.

This mornings episode was the worst yet, Cinnamon got so distressed that she actually soiled herself and Misty (who is a much smaller cat) was howling in terror and had to be taken in another room ASAP. After spending all morning trawling the net for information and advice I have really come to a loss on what to do next. It's becoming a nightmare.

So does anyone here know anything about cat psychology/mental health that might be able to point me in the right direction? The only thing I am sure of is that Cinnamon changed dramatically after her de-sexing, could that have been the trigger? I'm worried more so by the fact that she is only a young cat, 3 years, and this could get much worse with age. I've grown up with pet cats all my life and have never encountered problems like this (one of my old cats in the UK was found in a ferral cat colony as a kitten and even he was never like this). If anyone can advise me further I would be most grateful.

Daniel, I'm really sorry to hear about this. My first thought would be that there's an underlying physical condition causing the behavioural problems, particularly as you mentioned she's gained a lot of weight. Diabetes is a possibility as the vet said, and if she has that you really need to bite the bullet and get her sorted out, because it's not going to go away by itself. I know the costs are horrendous when it comes to animal treatment, I dread to think how I'd have managed without insurance, but some vets will take your circumstances into account and let you pay off a bill in instalments.

I've never heard of neutering affecting a female cat in any way, physically or psychologically. It can affect toms in a positive way, ie stops them spraying and wandering, but females are generally unaffected. It could be pure coincidence that the changes date from around that time. Had she had any treatment by a vet before then? I'm just wondering if she could have been psychologically frightened by the experience - strange place, strange people, you went away .... cats can be a bit like small children in that respect.

How old is your other cat? Did you have her before Cinnamon, or did she come after? Did they get on OK before the behaviour change? Is she indulging in any other bad behaviour like spraying? Do you leave windows open when you're not home, that neighbourhood cats could be using to come into her territory? The aggression you describe sounds like a territorial issue, to me.

If she hasn't had much veterinary treatment thus far, I'd seriously advise you to take out insurance and then get her to a vet for a thorough checkover. Look around for insurance that will cover more than just the usual sort of treatment - for instance my policy covers treatment by a behavioural therapist and even some holistic approaches, as well as the cost of a special diet if my cats ever need one for medical reasons. It is so, so worth having insurance.

If her aggression is seriously frightening your other cat you need to keep them separate as much as possible, and they each need their own litter tray too by the way.

Out of interest, which one of them would you say has been the dominant cat till now? Because if it's Misty, then Cinnamon could be on a mission to take over as top cat. This power struggle can go on for ages with cats who share a territory, and it can get very loud and very nasty at times. If it's just that, then eventually one of them will give in and submit to the other, and it should settle down.

I'd at least try another vet,Daniel.The first one sounded like a typical reductionist bastard.There are,even in Oz I imagine,people involved in animals who take a more humane (or feline) approach,trying to understand an animals psyche rather than just physical/chemical processes.
I have known a couple of cats who would have been labelled,had they been human,borderline psychotic.(One was even called Norman Bates because he'd been vicious to all and sundry since kittenhood).But I'm not sure if a cat can really be deemed mentally ill...?
Good luck,anyway.I have a friend who works humanely with dogs,who'd be interested to hear of this.Next time I see her I'll ask her.

sound world wrote: I have known a couple of cats who would have been labelled,had they been human,borderline psychotic.(One was even called Norman Bates because he'd been vicious to all and sundry since kittenhood).But I'm not sure if a cat can really be deemed mentally ill...?

Cats who've been unfortunate enough to have a bad mother - one who was immature, uncertain, uninterested or overly aggressive - do indeed suffer behaviourally for the rest of their lives, in a very similar way to some children. They can become aggressively anti-social, both with humans and other animals. However it tends to be that way from the get-go. A cat who was formerly OK in their behaviour and then changes has got something else going on.

The main 'psychological' cause of aggressive behaviour in otherwise normal cats is territorial issues. It's difficult to overstate how badly some cats can react to the presence/smell of others in their patch. I have one like that - Missy, the dominant cat, will still regularly go for my youngest one Angel, even though it's now over two years they've lived together.

Daniel, can you describe what Cinnamon is actually doing in a bit more detail, as regards her behaviour to Misty?

Well Cinnamon has calmed down drastically, this morning she was all bright and cheerful and friendly again. I have determined the problem, and it's territorial. In short, a window ledge. Misty has claimed this as her ledge and whenever Cinnamon goes near it or lies on it Misty jumps up onto her to make her move. I only noticed her doing it this morning, which means she has probably been doing it for months. Obviously yesterday it esculated into a frenzy on Cinnamon's part.

Interestingly I had put down Cinnamon's early kitten days as being the source of her problems now. During her first year she was quite a timid but energetic cat. I suppose in retrospect that she has been declining in nerves since we got her when she was around 6 weeks (which seemed to me to be very young when I saw her for sale in a pet shop - part of the reason I bought her).

Misty and Cinnamon are only about a couple of weeks different in age and have always got on quite well in the past. However, Misty is wired. She loves people and constantly demands attention. I suppose if I lived with Misty as a 'housemate' I'd probably want to throttle her too sometimes. She obviously must push Cinnamon's patience to the extremes.

We tried the seperate cat litter tray thing, but Cinnamon and Misty are typical girls and have to go to the toilet together hehe!! They probably even hold each others hair when they cough up furballs!

One thing I have noted lately about Cinnamon is that when Misty annoys her, she will put herself to bed in the pet carrier and even close the door herself. Almost as if she is saying stay the hell away from me nermal!!!!

I really don't think it is diabetes, I doubted the vet at the time because she honestly sounded like she couldn't care less. Things are a lot better today with them which is a relief as last time this went on for a week.

I tell you though, I would love to know what goes on inside their heads!!!!!

I'm glad you figured out the problems, cuz I was about to suggest a brain tumour!

Cool you found out what was happening with her.

Cats are weird anyway.

On last december, we heard a cat mewing all night long, and on the morning, I saw an abandoned black kitten on top of the apple tree, still mewing. I took him, and after a little while, we decided to adopt him.
We already had two cats, a male (Gabin) and a female (Pooka). after a week or so of growling, everything went fine between them all. Glad we were about it !

Unfortunately, at the beginning of february, Gabin went away, and we first thought he finally hadn't accepted the new cat, and might be back after a while. As he didn't, we put little posters at bakers' in the village to ask for help... but nothing.

Sadly, we finally found him dead under a little ramp in our garden last sunday. He probably came back here to die after - we suppose - being hit by a car... or bitten by a wild animal maybe.

I buried him this morning, near where he died, just below my office's window. I got him when he was 3 months old, and despite his character, he was a nice cat.

I miss him.

That's very sad,Franck.Is that him in the pic? Very beautiful.
I get terribly upset when one of my cats dies.
Touch wood,Tatty,my present cat,should live to a ripe old age since we don't live near a road.

So sorry to hear this, Franck. What a beautiful looking cat. It does sound as if he found a little place to die, this is what they tend to do. Might not have been a car accident or being attacked by another animal, though. Feline leukaemia is often a suspect when an otherwise apparently healthy cat goes off to die.

Good luck with your kitten. There's nothing better in this world than a kitten. I was just saying to my daughter the other day that it's just as well I had her before I discovered cats, otherwise she might not be here.

blue wrote:So sorry to hear this, Franck. What a beautiful looking cat. It does sound as if he found a little place to die, this is what they tend to do. Might not have been a car accident or being attacked by another animal, though. Feline leukaemia is often a suspect when an otherwise apparently healthy cat goes off to die.

Yeah, you're probably right, 'cos he wasn't vaccinated, nor my other cats. I know it's stupid, but it's also a question of money, it's quite expensive to vaccinate them all every year (if I remember well between 45 & 60 € by vaccination by cat...). There was a time I just couldn't afford it.

Good luck with your kitten. There's nothing better in this world than a kitten. I was just saying to my daughter the other day that it's just as well I had her before I discovered cats, otherwise she might not be here.

Ahah ! funny, I still don't have any child, and we often compare cats and children in a half-serious conversation with my gf !

Franck wrote: Ahah ! funny, I still don't have any child, and we often compare cats and children in a half-serious conversation with my gf !

I hope it's not too serious or i'm just not enough of a cat-lover myself; i would like to have a cat sometime, just find the trouble having one too much right now How about dogs; or is that completely unappropriate in a cat discussion thread?
I would also like a dog sometime, preferably a labrador (see the pic of the one my family had)

I'm really sorry to hear about your cat Franck, I know how devestating it is to lose a cat. He was a beautiful looking cat, I have such a weak spot for fluffy cats and ginger cats!!!!

I completely agree with the children statement too, my 2 cats are like my children and as close to having children as I'll ever get. It's so sad losing any pet, it is losing a member of the family when they pass away and it drives me mad when some people don't understand that.

Us cat lovers get so fucking attached to their cats:( Which sucks when something happens to them...

One of the memories that still haunt me is when I was about 12, a few months before we moved to New York from California, our cat, Missy went missing. We figured she was attacke dby some coyotes or something. About a week before we actually left, I went with a friend the Humane Society to pick out a kitten for her.

I was alone in the cat room and a cat kept meowing at me. I bent down to look in the cage and I recognized the 3 dark spots in her side, though she had grown quite alot. Yep, it was Missy. I took her out of her cage and held her and cried. I'm about to shed some tears now at the regret.

I didn't know what to do, I was young, so I kept quiet as we walked out. I never mentioned it to my parents or anyone. I knew we were moving and I didn't know how we would find a home for her. To this day it still hurts. I haven't had a cat since.

I never understood how some people just view them as just creatures. It annoys me when people don't understand.

Franck wrote: Yeah, you're probably right, 'cos he wasn't vaccinated, nor my other cats. I know it's stupid, but it's also a question of money, it's quite expensive to vaccinate them all every year (if I remember well between 45 & 60 € by vaccination by cat...). There was a time I just couldn't afford it.

Franck, all my cats have been vaccinated, but it's not the safeguard that people are led to believe. My oldest cat Blue got sick with a repeated mouth infection 18 months ago, and after several bouts of treatment that didn't work, the vet tested her for the feline calicci virus (cat flu) and it turned out she has it, despite being vaccinated. I couldn't understand it, so I started to research it a bit and I was horrified to discover that despite widespread vaccination since 1981, cat flu remains endemic in the feline population. Vaccination does NOT stop cats from aquiring these viruses. It truly comes down to sheer luck and how good your cat's inherited immune system is. A tough cat with good genes can fight off the virus by itself, but one with poor genes can catch it despite being vaccinated. The *only* reason to vaccinate a cat, as far as I can see, is because most insurance companies won't cover them if they're not, and you need insurance to cover costs of other illnesses/accidents.

With the feline leukaemia virus, there is no vaccination and no cure. It is always fatal, nothing to be done about it, and the estimate is that 1 in 4 of the cat population carries it. So every time your cat goes out the door, 1 in 4 of the cats it comes into contact with could pass on feline leukaemia. It's such an insidious thing too because it is symptom-free until just before the end.

The conclusion I came to after all my research was that it's really a lottery - there are viruses out there that can harm your cat no matter what you do, so it's best to just love them while they're alive and well, and hope for the best.

wirbel wrote: I hope it's not too serious or i'm just not enough of a cat-lover myself; i would like to have a cat sometime, just find the trouble having one too much right now How about dogs; or is that completely unappropriate in a cat discussion thread?
I would also like a dog sometime, preferably a labrador (see the pic of the one my family had)

I like dogs, but I'm passionately devoted to cats. I suspect that's true for most cat lovers.

I think dogs and cats suit different types of people respectively. Dogs = activity, energy, lots of attention needed. Cats = placidity, domesticity, respectful companionship at something of a polite distance. Cat life is sleepy, comfy, somnambulent, warm: dog life is noisy, boisterous, outdoorsy. I'm very much a cat person.