The Tori Thread

blue · Post by **blue** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:12 am

sound world wrote:Is no.50 in the album charts so terrible? Maybe it's not the same as when she first appeared,but I think the vast majority of musicians wouldn't mind getting the royalties from that sort of sale.

Incidentally, Dave, due to the continuing decline of record sales across the board, the number of albums you need to sell to get into the top 40 nowadays is shockingly low. To gain her no. 50 position, Tori sold less than 9000 copies in the UK this week.

Not sure what the royalties on that would be, but it's certainly not going to be anywhere near enough to cover the costs of making the album and getting the artwork done.

Post by **sound world** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:56 am

blue wrote: the number of albums you need to sell to get into the top 40 nowadays is shockingly low. To gain her no. 50 position, Tori sold less than 9000 copies in the UK this week.

Not sure what the royalties on that would be, but it's certainly not going to be anywhere near enough to cover the costs of making the album and getting the artwork done.

Yes,I was just wondering that about the charts...makes you wonder why anyone bothers!
Seriously,in this age of downloading,mp3s etc,I'm amazed that any (performing) musician is making any money from recordings...

blue · Post by **blue** » Tue May 08, 2007 2:17 am

I'm sure this is the main factor in the sort of 'homemade' aspect of ADP - the viral video would have cost peanuts to make compared to a 'proper' promo, the photo shoots were done in outbuildings on the farm next door to T's home in Cornwall rather than in a proper London studio. I think her main expense for the promotional aspects was probably the photographer, who's a rather hip fellow from the fashion world, and T's 'glam squad'. I think she's really tried to cut down costs on this record as much as possible, precisely because she's not earning as much as she used to.

It might be that once the reality sinks in of how little she's going to earn from this record, she'll cut her losses and ditch the whole major label thing. She's one of the artists it's just not working for anymore. The only people earning money in the traditional music business now are suits.

Post by **RobB** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:24 pm

sound world wrote:Is no.50 in the album charts so terrible? Maybe it's not the same as when she first appeared,but I think the vast majority of musicians wouldn't mind getting the royalties from that sort of sale.

Hello Stina.

sound world wrote:Charts are so odious and ridiculous.All they tell anyone is how much something is selling by comparison to other things,absolutely no indicator of quality,or much else for that matter.

I think people in general are just fascinated by charts, lists etc whatever the product...........even the football league is a chart. It doesn't really matter how its compiled, be it based on sales or performance, people just like to compare one product with another. The Guiness Book Of Records went on for long enough to prove that.

In Tori's case (and most other artists for that matter) the intererst in not in comparing their product sales with someone elses but with their own previous sales. If a new Tori album sells half the quantity of the last Tori album then the interest lies in the reason why.

In a perfect world it would be nice (not to say extremely useful) to have a chart based on the quality of the music but unfortuantely music is far too subjective for that to be workable so I guess charts based on what people are prepared to spend their hard earned money on is here to stay.

Post by **RobB** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:31 pm

blue wrote:Curious to know what you think Rob, if you've heard it yet?

No,I havn't heard it yet and being the cheapskate that I am I'm holding off til I can pick it up cheaply in the baragin bins in a few months time.

Ever since I saw Paul McCartney's excellent last album 'Chaos And Creation In The Backyard' on sale in Woolies for £1, I'm loathed to pay anymore than that for cds.

d.a.walker · Post by **d.a.walker** » Tue May 08, 2007 2:17 pm

It's a big shame about Tori's decline in sales and low chart positions, but then it won't really come as a shock to her I don't think, mainly due to the factors of priority, age and promotion of artists by their labels. This is something that Tori has had issues with from her labels for a very long time. Major lables pull out all of the stops with priority and promotion if the artist looks good, is young and of mass appeal. Look at the crap that dominates the charts around the world. It goes for the sex dollar rather than the talent dollar. The unchallenging market rather than the challenging market.

It's a sad truth that talent does not always equal mainstream success. Another sad truth is that big selling albums are quite often bland bilge, contrived and inoffensive, designed from conception to make money rather than any sort of statement. Look as Avril Lavigne's latest effort Girlfriend, which is the sound of her label terrified at the fact she recently got married, and god forbid the thought her album might tank as a result of her marital status. The irony here is this seems to be an aspect of Doll Posse that Tori is battling (Teenage Hustling echoes this).

Tori has achieved a great deal already and I think she has reached a level where she is always going to sell a certain level of albums. However when greedy labels are all profit profit profit, the sad thing is that even good sales these days are not enough. But she must make quite a neat revenue of her touring, because people will always go to her concerts due to her fantastic reputation as a live performer. That has to be some comfort to her.

I'm also very 'picky' when it comes to buying hard copies of albums hehe, I picked up Suzanne Vega's Solitude Standing and The Cranberries Everybody Else Is Doing It, So Why Can't We? for $2 each on CD. It's a great way to replace your worn out vinyl too hehe....Mind you there is nothing worse than buying an expensive one track album....

I hope that Tori's sales fare better in the US, her perfomance on Letterman was superb

She hasn't a hope in Australia, the charts here are disgusting too...

blue · Post by **blue** » Wed May 09, 2007 12:01 am

I read on an Australian Tori board that ADP had entered the Australian chart at no. 20, the same position as both TBK and SW debuted at. I think the fact that she's touring that part of the world again has probably helped to boost sales.

Regardless of first or second week sales, T is one of those artists who sell steadily over long periods of time, and given the very positive reviews and word of mouth the album has received, I suspect it will probably end up selling a reasonable amount.

Post by **RobB** » Thu May 10, 2007 9:49 am

One aspect of the albums 'failure' that hasn't been touched upon is its cost.

I was browsing in HMV yesterday and was shocked to see it on sale for £13.95

Thats not Tori's fault of course but its hardly priced to allow the casual music buying fan to take a chance on it.

blue · Post by **blue** » Thu May 10, 2007 1:04 pm

CDs do seem to cost more in record shops - I can't remember the last time I bought from a record shop for that reason, like many people nowadays I get my CDs online. I bought ADP for £8.98 from Amazon, and as I bought a replacement copy of Scarlet's Walk for £5.97 at the same time, bringing my total to £15, I didn't even pay any postage.

Amazon have the ADP Special Edition (with DVD) for £10.98, which is still cheaper than the ordinary version from a record shop.

blue · Post by **blue** » Thu May 10, 2007 1:13 pm

Just checked the new Billboard chart and ADP has gone in at no.5, making it Tori's sixth consecutive top 10 album in the US. Don't know what the actual sales total is* - two years ago she had to sell 80K to achieve that position with The Beekeeper, but I suspect ADP has not reached that total.

*edit*

ADP sold 53K to achieve the no.5 position.

Post by **RobB** » Thu May 10, 2007 5:31 pm

The cheapest places to buy albums in stores are in supermarkets like tescos, sainsburys, asda etc where normally single albums are about £8.95 which is quite reasonable.

The only problem is that they normally only stock the Top 40 which isn't much help to anyone wanting to buy a #50 album like Tori's.
Still,i'd never buy a top 40 album from stores like Virgin or HMV although they're on-line prices are really quite good, mainly due to being mailed from the channel islands.

blue · Post by **blue** » Fri May 11, 2007 1:14 pm

Apparently the unexpectedly low chart position for ADP in the UK is not an accurate indication of sales here - it seems that all sales of the special edition were disqualified from the count, due to the inclusion of the five postcards of the 'dolls', which broke some odd rule or other.

Given that anecdotal evidence from the boards suggests that many fans purchased the special edition to get the DVD and postcards, it looks like ADP would have had a significantly higher postion had those sales been counted.

Somebody dropped the ball on this one at Epic. You'd think they'd be aware of chart rules.

Post by **RobB** » Fri May 11, 2007 5:16 pm

I read that too although if that particular version was indeed 'limited' then I doubt the sales from it would have made that much of a difference.

Btw.....did anybody catch Tori on the Granham Norton show last night?

blue · Post by **blue** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:56 pm

RobB wrote:I read that too although if that particular version was indeed 'limited' then I doubt the sales from it would have made that much of a difference.

It's not a limited edition Rob, though some retailers are listing it as such. It's a special edition with DVD, similar to the ones done for Scarlet's Walk and The Beekeeper. It'd be interesting to know what the sales total including the SE was.

RobB wrote:Btw.....did anybody catch Tori on the Granham Norton show last night?

I can't stand Norton - not even Tori could make me sit through that.

No doubt her performance/interview will be up on youtube soon, I'll check it out there.

blue · Post by **blue** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:52 pm

OK, according to everythingtori.com, T was informed about the special edition being ineligible for the UK chart BEFORE the album was released, but chose to go ahead with it anyway knowing that her chart position would be affected. She didn't want the UK fans to miss out on something that would be available to fans everywhere else.

I feel a lot better knowing that - if it was her informed decision to go ahead with it, obviously that's much different to someone just cocking up at the record company. I actually find it quite admirable that she cared more about keeping the packaging the same for all fans.

Ironically, if the SE had had four postcards instead of five, it would have counted for the chart.