modern life is rubbish

[RobB]

You could always go on holiday by train.

Sounds good in theory but in practice.........how do you get two adults and three kids and luggage to the train station.....three miles away? What do you do when you get to the other end? How do you get to the guest house / hotel? How do you get around?
Nope,cars are far more practical,far more convenient.

Or go to Clacton .

Ok for a day visit if you havn't anything better to do but I wouldn't go there for a holiday.

[sound world]

You could always go on holiday by train.

Sounds good in theory but in practice.........how do you get two adults and three kids and luggage to the train station.....three miles away? What do you do when you get to the other end? How do you get to the guest house / hotel? How do you get around?
Nope,cars are far more practical,far more convenient.

They invented these clever things called TAXIS several years ago,which is the kind of thing cars should be used for.

[RobB]

They invented these clever things called TAXIS several years ago,which is the kind of thing cars should be used for.

I know what a TAXI is .....what do you think my car is?

[blue]

This is the problem, isn't it - people are so used to the easy convenience of getting to and fro under their own steam, you'll never get them to give it up. The best we can hope for I think is that they can be persuaded not to use the car EVERY time they need to go anywhere. Like the woman a few doors down from me who, every morning, used to put her kids in the car and drive them to school - AT THE TOP OF THE ROAD WE LIVE IN.

It literally used to take me and my daughter about two and a half minutes to walk it.

[RobB]

Like the woman a few doors down from me who, every morning, used to put her kids in the car and drive them to school - AT THE TOP OF THE ROAD WE LIVE IN.

No wonder the health people go on about obese kids.

The only way the government is going to stop (more) people from using their cars is to do away with insurence (and also do away with road tax duty ) and instead put the lost revenue and the cost of automatically insuring everyone onto the fuel. Add a 50p tax to each litre of fuel.
That way people who use their vehicles the most,pay the most.

Also,it will encourage people to use public transport because people won't be so aggrieved at the authorities about having to pay for the trains busses etc whilst also having to pay hundreds of pounds a year (on insurence and road tax) just to have their cars parked in the garage,unused.

That might encourage me to make less shorter journeys but I still think I'd need the convenience of driving my own car for longer journeys.

[sound world]

This is the problem, isn't it - people are so used to the easy convenience of getting to and fro under their own steam, you'll never get them to give it up. The best we can hope for I think is that they can be persuaded not to use the car EVERY time they need to go anywhere. Like the woman a few doors down from me who, every morning, used to put her kids in the car and drive them to school - AT THE TOP OF THE ROAD WE LIVE IN.

It literally used to take me and my daughter about two and a half minutes to walk it.

Yes,we have one of those next door.Me and Robin used to walk or cycle to school while Ms Maserati zoomed her daughter (in Robin's class) in her Chelsea tractor.Walking,it's all of 1/2 a mile.In a car,it's a lot longer,you can't go through the park.We used to arrive at the gate just as she reached it.I mentioned the possibility of walking with her daughter as well on numerous occasions,but the concept of walking was obviously a foreign language.Funny thing was,whenever her Granny came to stay,she and Gran would always walk.
Incidentally,RobB and anyone else in England who drives,here's something you CAN do,in July:-
http://www.changeyourworld.org.uk/

[wirbel]

for me everyone should have the freedom to use a car; you just don't get that kind of freedom with public transport; also it's not fair to have people who drive more pay more by adding more tax (to the already world's highest prices here in NL). Just because people that don't earn so much or who are living on the countryside get limited that way...

Just make polluting cars more expensive and finally get those electric cars on the market.

[RobB]

also it's not fair to have people who drive more pay more by adding more tax (to the already world's highest prices here in NL). Just because people that don't earn so much or who are living on the countryside get limited that way...

Its even less fair for the poor old OAP who maybe only use their car once a week for a Sunday afternoon drive to pay the same amount of road tax as someone who is using their car commuting to work every day.
They are wearing the road out more so they should pay more to repair the damage they're causing.

Just make polluting cars more expensive and finally get those electric cars on the market.

That is happening now in the UK with those 'gas guzzlers' paying double the tax.

[sound world]

How about cycling...the best way to travel....and its free...and the cyclist is free...(pedals off humming My White Bicycle)...

You a cyclist John? I cycle everywhere,except when I can walk,which is best of all.

[barrett]

How about cycling...the best way to travel....and its free...and the cyclist is free...(pedals off humming My White Bicycle)...

You a cyclist John? I cycle everywhere,except when I can walk,which is best of all.

On those rare days when it aint pissing down,I'll cycle the 4 miles through the forest to the village ot get my messages,providing i dont need a bale of turf for the fire.They're abit too heavy to sling over me shoulder.
Its wierd but after cycling for a bit,even that seems too fast,and i'll notice some interesting flora and have to stop and admire it and then end up walking pushing the byke for a while.It really slows down the pace of life.

[wirbel]

They are wearing the road out more so they should pay more to repair the damage they're causing.

For me the roads are 'common good' and everyone should pay equally for it, just as we should pay equal taxes for bicycle paths and health care, which also not everyone uses in the same way. This is the social base a country should be built on. For me the freedom to move should be an individual right that shouldn't be too much limited by extra taxes on usage. But if you want to do that in an extra polluting car (in contrary to a 1.2 lupo diesel that runs 33km's on 1 liter) than you should pay more to obtain that. It will also use more gas, so there you're already paying more taxes that are included in the gas price.

[RobB]

For me the roads are 'common good' and everyone should pay equally for it, just as we should pay equal taxes for bicycle paths and health care, which also not everyone uses in the same way. This is the social base a country should be built on. For me the freedom to move should be an individual right that shouldn't be too much limited by extra taxes.

That all reads fine in theory but in practice its an unfair system which is open to abuse. There will always be a section of society who think they have a right to sit down,do nothing but have a right have the same level of service and to be subsidised by those who are prepared to work and pay their way in life.

There's also a case of where is the line drawn? If we go down the track of 'common good' and 'paying equally' irrespective of use,should that not apply to,for example, gas bills and electric bills?

So someone living alone should pay the same electric bill as a family of six living next door? I think if I was that lone person that I'd be none to happy at subsidising the family next good for the so called 'common good'.

As it is in the UK we have this daft, totally unfair, council tax system which was correctly addressed years ago with the 'poll tax'.
This proved unpopular though because a lot of people who should have been paying but never did had to starthaving to pay which obviously they didn't like doing. So it was thrown out and we've gone back to the old unjust system again.

I'm a great believer that people should pay for what they use......and going back to the roads,by taxing the fuel more and doing away with the 'road tax',then that would be the fairest way of taxation based on usage.

[barrett]

For me the roads are 'common good' and everyone should pay equally for it, just as we should pay equal taxes for bicycle paths and health care, which also not everyone uses in the same way. This is the social base a country should be built on. For me the freedom to move should be an individual right that shouldn't be too much limited by extra taxes.

That all reads fine in theory but in practice its an unfair system which is open to abuse. There will always be a section of society who think they have a right to sit down,do nothing but have a right have the same level of service and to be subsidised by those who are prepared to work and pay their way in life.

There's also a case of where is the line drawn? If we go down the track of 'common good' and 'paying equally' irrespective of use,should that not apply to,for example, gas bills and electric bills?

So someone living alone should pay the same electric bill as a family of six living next door? I think if I was that lone person that I'd be none to happy at subsidising the family next good for the so called 'common good'.

As it is in the UK we have this daft, totally unfair, council tax system which was correctly addressed years ago with the 'poll tax'.
This proved unpopular though because a lot of people who should have been paying but never did had to starthaving to pay which obviously they didn't like doing. So it was thrown out and we've gone back to the old unjust system again.

I'm a great believer that people should pay for what they use......and going back to the roads,by taxing the fuel more and doing away with the 'road tax',then that would be the fairest way of taxation based on usage.

There speaks a True Blue Thatcherite !!!

[RobB]

There speaks a True Blue Thatcherite !!!

Absolutely.

[blue]

I'm so glad I don't drive.