The Tori Thread

[blue]

Its funny how tastes can change.... Toris singing just grates with me on every song.
Not that she's singing any different than she normally does and probably 15 years ago I would have loved this, but now I just find her performances uninvolving,unemotional and just plain dull.

Sometimes it just happens that way Rob, it's a bit like me with Kate Bush - all those years when I was young I absolutely adored her voice, and now it positively annoys me in its childishness, to the point I can't listen to her anymore. Tastes change over the years, as you say.

[RobB]

Still, i'm glad the new album sounds like its restored your faith in Tori and maybe i will still get a copy if i can pick it up for a couple of quid in the bargain bins?

[blue]

Well I'm not sure about restored my faith, but I'm hoping the album is as good as the clips make it sound, and that maybe she's on an upswing in her creativity. It could just be that it's the long training she had in this particular music as a child coming to the fore - all those years playing in her father's church. Or maybe, just maybe, she's starting to come through this weird, shallow, rather sad phase she's been in. Maybe going right back to her musical 'first principles' has reminded her of who she used to be.

[blue]

So the album has leaked ... and I am LOVING it.

I thought maybe it was just me but the reaction on the boards is overwhelmingly positive, which is lovely to see after so much disappointment and frustration with the last three albums. It's just hilariously ironic that she's accomplished with a quickly recorded, almost impromptu Christmas record what she couldn't with all the time and money and polish that's gone into TBK, ADP and AATS.

Lesson there methinks, Tori.

[RobB]

Thanks to Beth, i'm currently enjoying listening to the album which is probably Tori's most consistantly pleasing album for over a decade.

However,although early days, it does appear that its going to prove another dud for the Tori community if these early ratings are anything to go by.

http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/tori_amos

[blue]

I'm so glad you're enjoying the album Rob, it kind of confirms my own feeling that it's the best work she's put out in some years. I've listened to it every day since it leaked, falling more and more in love with it each time - at this point it has joined the ranks of Tori's great albums, for me.

I'm puzzled by the 'dud for the community' comment though, because without question the reaction on the boards to this album has been hugely positive. It's the first Tori album in years that's gotten this kind of 'I love it' response. As far as I can see there's a tiny number of online fans who don't like it - maybe these are the ones posting negative reviews? Everyone else is too busy listening to it.

Great critical response on the whole too, but the first and second week sales I'm afraid tell a sad story of how let down and disappointed many fans have been by three not very good albums in a row - Midwinter Graces barely entered the UK top 100, and in the US it only entered at no.66, which is extraordinary considering her last god knows how many albums have been either top 5 or top 10 in the US. This is really a crying shame and a terrible irony, because it's a gorgeous, wonderful record that deserves so much better. A few people have pointed out that there was no promotion when the album was released, and indeed now that Tori is back from Australia and beginning to do radio and TV promotion the sales do seem to be picking up - the album has re-entered some iTunes charts in much higher positions than it did a month ago.

However I think it's an undeniable fact that with each of those three mediocre records released '05, '07 and '09, a bit more of the core fanbase has given up on her. I know that I didn't even bother to buy Abnormally Attracted to Sin when it was released earlier this year, nor did I bother to go see her on tour this time. I'm sure that's probably the case with other longtime fans too. So I suspect the very poor sales for Midwinter Graces are partly a reflection of a fanbase who have come to expect disappointment from her.

It's such a pity because this record is absolutely worthy of her talent, and has many of the qualities, both musical and emotional, that I associate with 'old Tori'. I honestly didn't believe she had this kind of work in her anymore. It's been a blissful surprise.

I hope the sales pick up as we get nearer to Christmas, but I have a feeling the reputation of this album will only grow in future and it'll end up becoming one of her most loved albums.

[RobB]

I think it made #97 in the UK in its first week and was out of the tiop 200 the following week so commercially it hasn't done too well.

I think there is a general suspician about 'seasonal albums' anyway.....there's just something cheesy about Christmas albums even though technically 'Midwinter Graces' is simply a Winter album.

Thinking about it, I'm surprised Tori didn't re-record Winter for the album which would have given it a further lift for the old Tori fans.

But I agree, the recent run of mainly mediocre albums (many Tori fans are citing Strange Little Girls when the rot initially set in) as alienated all but the Tori-die hards who always were in the minority.

Another problem is age. With the majority of music buyers still being in the early teens to mid twenties group (as its been for the last fifty years or so), I doubt they can relate with this kooky 46 year old American woman.

[d.a.walker]

I downloaded it, it sounds ok, better than abominably attracted to stink, but for me the magic is gone, dead and burried under a staggeringly vain woman who bears no resemblance to an artist I once so admired. It's too hard for me to enjoy the work of someone I don't respect or like. Her fine body of work up to scarlet is enough for me, the rest just doesn't matter

[RobB]

It someways its like sportsmen and women who just go on for too long. Some,like Michael Schumacher for example, knew when to stop and got out at the pinnacle of their careers......but then you have snooker star Steve Davis,who just trudges on and on, and will never get anywhere near his glory years.

Tori is a bit like that. She peaked along time ago but she keeps going on, gradually deminishing with each release all the credibility she once had.

Enya is another one. Rolling Stones another. They just won't except that they're well past their prime.

Hmmm....maybe Stina has done a Michael Schumacher on us? [b)]

[sound world]

Well,whether something sells or not has nothing to do with how good it is.
The only use to an artist is whether it will help bankroll another project.Which is maybe what has made Stina hop off the production line.And let's face it,Stina was never at all comfortable with the machinations of the music industry,her whole career is marked by her unease with it.

I would think Michael Schumacher got out because he has a high chance of being killed,(plus he was involved in the most boring and pointless activity known to man).
It will take a lot of snooker to kill Steve Davis.

[RobB]

I would think Michael Schumacher got out because he has a high chance of being killed,(plus he was involved in the most boring and pointless activity known to man).

Folk usually say that about cricket too........generally when they can't understand the mechanics of that sport either.

It will take a lot of snooker to kill Steve Davis.

hmmm..........not if i shoved that cue right up his [censor] it wouldn't

[blue]

I downloaded it, it sounds ok, better than abominably attracted to stink, but for me the magic is gone, dead and burried under a staggeringly vain woman who bears no resemblance to an artist I once so admired. It's too hard for me to enjoy the work of someone I don't respect or like. Her fine body of work up to scarlet is enough for me, the rest just doesn't matter

Sadly I think your comments reflect the feelings of a lot of longtime fans Daniel, and I totally understand - I've commented on previous pages how horribly vain and superficial she seems to have become as a person in the last few years, and what a huge disappointment that is. Frankly I found some of her AATS interviews appalling in that respect - talking in one breath about her sympathy for everyone struggling in the recession, and in the next about how many thousands of dollars she's just spent on a couple of frocks, and how her 9 year old daughter has to have Dior make-up because she won't accept anything less. Just ... wow.

I don't know if word of how disgusted a lot of fans were by these interviews has got back to her, but she seems to have toned it down a bit in the recent press for the new album. Still, I was very pissed off at her attitude to journalists' criticisms about the length of her last few records ... basically 'they need to do some drugs and shut the fuck up'. Um, yeah Tori - you know best, I guess.

Still, when the music is as lovely as Midwinter Graces I can enjoy it on its own terms, and just disconnect my feelings about her as a person these days. Actually when I think about it, I've always done this to some extent with Tori, because there's always been things about her as a person that I've found irritating/eyeroll worthy. I just didn't pay them too much mind because the music meant so much to me. I wonder if the reason we've all become so annoyed and disgusted with certain aspects of her personality over the past five years is simply because there hasn't been the great music to distract us from them.

[blue]

Well,whether something sells or not has nothing to do with how good it is.

Yes, and it's certainly the case with Midwinter Graces. I think the greater part of the formerly devoted fanbase just haven't bothered to even check it out this time, so disillusioned are they by this point. It's frustrating when the album is good, for a change.

Still, she only has herself to blame. She talks herself up as a brilliant strategist in the music industry, but I'm afraid she's made some very bad decisions over the years. The worst of which, I think, was her decision to keep making band records. It worked well for Choirgirl, Venus and Scarlet, but everything after was increasingly below par because she was in a comfortable rut. It makes me laugh that she talks about 'stretching herself as a composer' by writing for a band rather than just her keyboards ... I'm sorry, but her early work - Little Earthquakes, Under the Pink and Boys for Pele - where the songs were written and recorded on piano, with band contributions having to fit in around that afterward, just pisses all over the band records. And the band tours of the last 11 years, where she's continually had to shout to make herself heard over 'the boys', has done probably irreversible damage to her voice. Listen to anything from the solo tours and compare it to the later ones. She put her ego ahead of respecting her voice, and now she's paying the price both live and on record.

[sound world]

hmmm..........not if i shoved that cue right up his [censor] it wouldn't

I flogged a record...or was it an old magazine?...to Steve Davis once on eBay.Yeah,I think it was a mag,an old 'Wire',because it had an article about Magma in it. Mr. Davis is well-known as a Magma anorak (he may be alone in this,which follows). I had no idea he was still playing snooker. These days I only follow table tennis; once upon a time I used to follow every sport going.


Anyway,this is nothing to do with Tori Amos. I ought to check out this latest CD of hers,since I like a lot of what Beth has introduced me to. There is a noticeable self-regarding streak in all her stuff,though. Something you get with certain artists-Keith Jarrett is another-part of you thinks 'what an arrogant twat', another part is totally fascinated and beguiled. A bit like the kid who was brilliant at everything at school.Or Mozart in the 'Amadeus' mindset. Is that true greatness?

[RobB]

In a perfect world we should just enjoy the work for what it is and shouldn't really be influenced one way or the other by the person creating the work. But unfortunately its not a perfect world and it is very hard to seperate the two.

As Daniel and Beth have remarked about Tori I find myself in the same position with Paul McCartney. Much as i actually still enjoy his music (despite its inconsistancy in recent years),my pleasure is marred somewhat by his smarmy public image and the rubbish he talks.

I think Tori would benefit now from taking a leaf out of the books of Kate Bush and Enya........oh,and Stina.
Just stop all live work, just concentrate on releasing quality new music, talk briefly about the music and just shut up about everything else. Unfortunately for Tori Amos she's not nearly as important as she likes to think she is. But maybe some of her OTT fans have fueled and encouraged the illusion and should be held responsible too?