The Tori Thread

d.a.walker · Post by **d.a.walker** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:01 am

I actually despise Bouncing Off The Clouds, her pronunciation in this song is at her most annoying and OTT. I'm still thinking Bjork should pop around and give her a good shaking up...

I hope they stop bothering to worry about a single and worry more about the foul potential artwork/photography...come back Cindy!!!!

blue · Post by **blue** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:59 am

d.a.walker wrote:I actually despise Bouncing Off The Clouds, her pronunciation in this song is at her most annoying and OTT. I'm still thinking Bjork should pop around and give her a good shaking up...

I liked that clip, although it's far from what I was hoping for with this record. I think in terms of a single release (why do they bother? When was the last time a Tori song got anywhere near the charts?) it's probably the best choice. It's simple, has a basic pop beat, doesn't require any brain power to enjoy. Good bland radio fodder.

Can you imagine T and Bjork in the same studio?

Bjork would be all, 'T, I made you some Portugese marmalade cakes. Let's have some then get our harpsichords out and enjoy!!'. And T would be all, 'I'm channelling the Magdalene. Pass me my medicine wheel, quick.'

d.a. walker wrote:I hope they stop bothering to worry about a single and worry more about the foul potential artwork/photography...come back Cindy!!!!

I've never understood why Cindy gets such a rough ride from a lot of fans. Her artwork was always so in tune with the feeling of the music, don't you think? Especially on Pele. That whole 'gothic southern belle' thing was SO perfect for that album.

I just can't quite believe how awful the new artwork is so far. I thought the first promo pic, the bible-shame-blood one, was hilarious at first, it never even occurred to me that it could be intended with anything other than humour. But it's looking more and more like a thoroughly po-faced and self-referential image. I think I was right about the 'five characters' being five different eras of Tori - notice the dark haired one to the right is wearing thigh-high boots, like YKTR Tori? And the red-haired one is holding a rooster, which could be a reference to Pele-era? The blonde one in the forefront I think is 'new Tori', with her camera to indicate that she's capturing the images of all the other Toris.

I'm frightened that if the woman's head disappears any further up her own arse we'll never hear her sing again.

d.a.walker · Post by **d.a.walker** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:17 am

I too loved Cindy's artwork/photography, she captured Tori so effectively, my favourite has always been the Crucify single cover. I just loved that photograph of her.

I cannot stand her rehashing her image, why? There is no point really, I always like Tori exploring territories, but her exploration of herself in this instance is proving to be very self indulgent and vain. And the pictures are just plain ugly I think, horrible use of colours....

d.a.walker · Post by **d.a.walker** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:33 am

Slightly off topic of the new album though, has anyone ever heard the naked version of Raspberry Swirl, which appeared on some promo singles and the cassette single? I have always wanted to hear this version and i have never come across it yet....

I also loved the mainline cherry ambient spark mix from the american cruel CD single, thought it was a rather interesting take...

Post by **RobB** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:49 pm

blue wrote: Considering you don't regard yourself as a big Tori fan, you have a really balanced appreciation of her work in all it's different aspects. Awesome!

Maybe i'm just old-fashioned and like a catchy tune!

aermancer · Post by **aermancer** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:33 am

blue wrote:
d.a.walker wrote:I actually despise Bouncing Off The Clouds, her pronunciation in this song is at her most annoying and OTT. I'm still thinking Bjork should pop around and give her a good shaking up...
I liked that clip, although it's far from what I was hoping for with this record. I think in terms of a single release (why do they bother? When was the last time a Tori song got anywhere near the charts?)

i do like singles if they actually have b-sides and remixes like all the bjork singles. Sweet the sting was an online single and as far as i know it was just a re-release of the song, what a rip. although a maxi single would be FAR more effective than doing multiple singles with 2 tracks. honestly, im not going to gouge my bank account to buy 500 2-track CDs, it'd be alot more efficient in a maxi single/EP.

aermancer · Post by **aermancer** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:37 am

d.a.walker wrote:I also loved the mainline cherry ambient spark mix from the american cruel CD single, thought it was a rather interesting take...

I've never heard of either of them

i'm listening to the Mainline Cherry Ambient Spark Mix and i like it, my favorite from FTCH is still Scarlet Spectrum Feels (Ambient Raspberry Swirl). Lip Gloss and Sugar Coated Sinful hardly qualify as remixes. They're about as different as the remixes on A Piano

Lip Gloss just has some wah-wah and Sugar Coated Sinful has an extra drum beat and is re-arranged a bit.

aermancer · Post by **aermancer** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:43 am

d.a.walker wrote:I too loved Cindy's artwork/photography, she captured Tori so effectively, my favourite has always been the Crucify single cover. I just loved that photograph of her.

I cannot stand her rehashing her image, why? There is no point really, I always like Tori exploring territories, but her exploration of herself in this instance is proving to be very self indulgent and vain. And the pictures are just plain ugly I think, horrible use of colours....

at first i liked the first promo image because anything new from Tori was exciting, but now that we see other artwork, it's easy to say they're quite boring and the gray tones aren't doing much for me.

From The Choirgirl Hotel is my favorite cover, all of the pictures from the Xerox machine photoshoot were AMAZING.

blue · Post by **blue** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:30 am

d.a.walker wrote:I too loved Cindy's artwork/photography, she captured Tori so effectively, my favourite has always been the Crucify single cover. I just loved that photograph of her.

There's something very pure about Cindy's early images of Tori, that one in particular. I love the fact that she always got Tori's humour, too. I mean, that necklace.

Another big favourite of mine from that era is the 'beehive dress' one, I think it was the cover of 'China'? I must dig out my singles and have a look.

d.a. walker wrote:I cannot stand her rehashing her image, why? There is no point really, I always like Tori exploring territories, but her exploration of herself in this instance is proving to be very self indulgent and vain. And the pictures are just plain ugly I think, horrible use of colours....

According to some of the fashionista types on MTF, the whole style of that photograph is very 'now' in terms of fashion photography, where it's supposed to look harsh and obviously fakey/surreal. This could explain a lot, especially as the guy who was mentioned early on in the project as being the chosen photographer is known for his high-fashion work.

Personally I just find it ugly and rather ridiculous, yes. More indication of how T's seeming obsession with the whole world of couture fashion has swamped her visual presentation in recent years.

blue · Post by **blue** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:39 am

d.a.walker wrote:Slightly off topic of the new album though, has anyone ever heard the naked version of Raspberry Swirl, which appeared on some promo singles and the cassette single? I have always wanted to hear this version and i have never come across it yet....

I also loved the mainline cherry ambient spark mix from the american cruel CD single, thought it was a rather interesting take...

The only versions I've heard/possess are from the Raspberry Swirl UK single - the Sticky Extended Vocal Mix and Scarlet Spectrum Feels, both of which I love. The former is the kind of bog-standard dance remix that usually I would turn my nose up at, but what I love about it is that, unusually for that kind of thing, they've kept the entire lead vocal intact. And because it's cleaned up, with the sonic distortion of T's original removed, you actually get to hear the whole vocal in a much clearer way.

Scarlet Spectrum Feels is awesome, I'm not at all educated about the different terms in dance music but I'd guess this is a kind of 'chill-out' version? I love the way it sounds like it's happening in deep space. I love the build up and the take off. The song is just brilliant anyway, which helps.

I don't suppose you could ysi the other mixes you have, Daniel? Oh and 'Garlands' too if you still have it on mp3? I can't find it anywhere online to download onto my new laptop. I can burn cds on this one so I'd love to have it.

blue · Post by **blue** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:49 am

aermancer wrote:
From The Choirgirl Hotel is my favorite cover, all of the pictures from the Xerox machine photoshoot were AMAZING.

Totally agree, those are some of the best and most creative visual presentations of her career so far. I love the watery/mermaid vibe, she really has a thing about mermaids. The un-xeroxed pictures are beautiful too, I turned the cover so that the one where she's just standing by herself, looking slightly away from the camera, is the cover. I think that must be one of my favourite Tori pictures ever.

blue · Post by **blue** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:07 am

RobB wrote:
blue wrote: Considering you don't regard yourself as a big Tori fan, you have a really balanced appreciation of her work in all it's different aspects. Awesome!
Maybe i'm just old-fashioned and like a catchy tune!

Well I think you're doing yourself a disservice there, Rob. I mean, some of the ones you listed - the early singles, the stuff from The Beekeeper etc - definitely have catchy tunes, Tori has a great gift for melody and she's certainly knocked out some absolutely gorgeous tunes over the years. That's one of her strengths. But some of your favourites are also excellent examples of her other side, the one where a predilection for what in classical music is referred to as 'the long line' comes into play. 'Horses', 'Bells For Her' and 'Icicle' all fall into that category, with their subtle, wandering piano lines that rely partly on counterpoint to hook your interest. These are the sort of Tori songs that generally elicit from casual listeners a reaction along the lines of 'OK, where's the tune? Why is she meandering all over the place and never getting anywhere? This is boring.' There generally isn't the patience to wait for something that subtle to sink in and take root that you find in, say, fans like myself who've come from a mainly classical listening background, and whose musical ear therefore is already trained to the long line, or fans like Daniel who come from a more experimental rock background and are used to putting in the effort to understand something unusual. The casual fans who just like her catchy-tune pop stuff don't usually go for the more delicate, demanding side of Tori.

d.a.walker · Post by **d.a.walker** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:17 am

I would go for:

Flying Dutchman
Purple People
Thoughts
Not The Red Baron
In The Springtime Of His Voodoo
Girl
Yes, Anastasia
Samurai
Sweet The Sting
Garlands
Iieee
Seaside
Winter
Josephine
Honey
Sugar
I Can't See New York
Wednesday

Now I am stopping here!!!! Before I go OTT hehe

Beth, no problem, I will source out Garlands and Ambient Spark, I also have an alternate version of Spark from the UK promo CD single, which I can find absolutely no difference in to the released version. Have you heard the rather creepy remix of Father Lucifer? (it's on the god awful handbag remix of Jackie's Strength CD).

Will send you the links via PM tomorrow morning...

d.a.walker · Post by **d.a.walker** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:38 am

The naked version was listed as the b-side to the cassette and jukebox 7" of Raspberry Swirl. I always wondered if it was a vocal only take of the song....

blue · Post by **blue** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:41 am

Thanks a million Daniel, really appreciate it.

I haven't heard any of the mixes from the Jackie's Strength single either as I was never able to get hold of it.

A selection of my Tori essentials in era-order, which will leave you in no doubt about which side of her musical character I love best:

mother * silent all these years * winter * girl * flying dutchman * humpty dumpty * ode to the banana king * daisy dead petals * here. in my head

pretty good year * bells for her * icicle * yes anastasia

beauty queen/horses * marianne * not the red baron * blood roses * putting the damage on * caught a lite sneeze * talula

iieee * hotel * cruel * raspberry swirl * playboy mommy * beulah land *
never seen blue * black dove

juarez * suede * lust * datura

a sorta fairytale * pancake * I can't see New York * virginia * gold dust * seaside * apollo's frock * indian summer *

the beekeeper (clearwater live version) * garlands

If there is even one track on a par with these on the new album, I will faint from shock and then cry hysterically with relief.